Saturday, November 02, 2013

Speaking about Church and some matters of Faith

Josimar Salum & Jim Fontaine


Churches like we know today are not according to the Scriptures. Scriptures teaches that there is just ONE CHURCH. A separated church from each other, denominational is sin.

The Body of Christ is not divided. Anyone who divides the Body of Christ God will destroy him.


A hybrid is a fruit that can’t produce seeds therefore it does not bear fruit. In the Scriptures church doesn’t generate other church; the disciples of Jesus make other disciples.

Jesus said to Peter along with others to shepherd or to feed the flock of God which is among you. To shepherd is a task, work, function. There is just one Flock and one Shepherd.

Today we use to say that someone shepherd a flock, other shepherd his own flock. We say that the sheep are mine; those out there are of other pastor’s and so on. We also say these sheep are my responsibility and those sheep are someone else responsibility.

The Protestant Reformation perpetuated the figure of the priest (father) of a church, or the figure of the Bishop if he is shepherding several churches. The Father was called then Pastor; the Bishop is called Superintendent or even the same title. The Pope is called President, Apostle, and so on.

In the New Testament “pastors” are always used in plural and those are who minister or serve, never by themselves, never alone. Each Church in the City had several pastors. In the singular only Jesus is called Pastor.

Each of us knows and studies these words with the glasses of our own denominations, traditions, etc.

If we are honest and able to let Luther, Calvin, etc. sleep in Peace and stop to consulting them, but only the Scriptures, we will understand what the Holy Spirit want to say by these terms in the Scriptures.

When we are born in an evangelical home or later in a church, Pentecostal, Protestant, neo-Pentecostal, etc. we learn what they teach us without questioning and comparing the learning with the Scriptures.
The time has come that each believer should study the Scriptures with the Holy Spirit and should recycle (confirm, check it out) everything that has heard and learnt from others without questioning.

Of course, any of us can honestly talk to each other, but we should not be fearful to come up with different conclusions to what we see all around.


Josimar, I very rare make comments but I really felt I needed to say something in regards to your comments against those of us who serve in the local church.

I have always appreciated your passion for Jesus and for the Gospel; your passion for seeing people come to faith in Jesus and saved.

But sometimes, your passion blinds you to the fact that your words can be very discouraging to those of us who do the work of Lord in the local church.

Our church may belong to a denomination but I am not bound to it… I am bound to Jesus and Him alone.

You accuse those in a denomination of being loyal only to the denomination when that is true of only some. You basically say that those serving in a local church that belongs to a denomination are not the real church. You say it is sin.

You seem to say that anyone who is an American evangelical or Protestant got their knowledge from books and tradition rather than from the Holy Spirit. 

My friend, if I misunderstand what you have said, I am sorry. If I did not misunderstand, then those statements are arrogant indeed.

I make no apologies for who I am. I am a Christ-follower. I accepted Jesus as my Lord and as my Savior and am saved. I was called to ministry by God.

I went to seminary but the conclusions I came to were not drilled into me by teachers; those conclusions came about because the Holy Spirit opened my eyes and God gave me understanding.

I preach the Word in grace and in truth and in love. I love God and I love the people under my care.

I love anyone who comes to me for help from outside the congregation.

I reach out to others and bring them the Good News. Many of my colleagues around the city of Worcester do the exact same thing with the exact same passion.

They love the Lord and they love people while serving in a local church that belongs to a denomination. God and the Gospel are first for them; the denomination is not the highest thing for them. 

I know you have had bad relationships with denominational stuff.

I understand that more than most because I saw what you went through with ABC.

But not every American Protestant and Evangelical is wrong just because they are not doing what you are doing.

When you say the things you do in the way that you do, it feels like an attack on those of us who are doing the work of the Kingdom faithfully.

An attack like that hardly feels encouraging. Ministry is hard enough without feeling like I am being attacked by a friend.

I am sure that was not your intention.

But when you make sweeping statements like you do, sometimes it hurts even if you did not mean it to be a personal attack. I just thought you should know how your statements come across… sometimes they hurt your friends even if that is not what you intended.


Dear Jim, it is really unfair your affirmation that my comments are “against those of us who serve in the local church.”

And on the other hand it would be very contradictory for my own self due to the fact that I serve my brothers and sisters exactly in the context of what you call “local church”. All my life, precisely 50 years I have been among those who serve the Lord in this environment even as it is the only one 99% of us have known.

I have been ordained for 30 years and most of those years I have been serving thousands of pastors and very close hundreds of others, so it is unimaginable that I would be against them, much less against you, whom I love and have dearly to my heart.

I feel very sad with me just to think that I could be discouraging you in the work of our Lord Jesus, but very conscious that some of the teachings I share can be very uncomfortable for any of us in the midst of these structures we are accustomed to call church.

I have tested with my own eyes that from your best understanding in the Lord what you have said it is true: “Our church may belong to a denomination, but I am not bound to it. I am bound to Jesus and Him alone.”

Here is a little difficulty present in our communication. When you say “our church” you are not based in the New Testament teaching, because in the NT there is not “our church” for anyone. There is a Church. When we gather at 475 Burncoat St Worcester MA in the parlor, or at the big room and are together we are the Church, not ours, no theirs, but the Church. At the same time in the city where many are gathering in different places, even two or three at Dunkin Donuts we are all the Church.

There is no Church in the New Testament affiliated to anybody, much less to a denomination.

Denomination means according to Merriam-Webster: an act of denominating. A value or size of a series of values or sizes (as of money) namedesignationespecially:  a general name for a category. A religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices

Denomination is related to denominator: the term of a fraction, usu. written under or after the line, that indicates the number of equal parts into which the unit is divided; divisor. 

Yes, Denomination is not the Church. Denomination is sin, all of them.

Dear Jim, “is Christ divided”?  (I Corinthians 1:13) From merízō (from méros, "a single part, member") – properly, to divide, distribute into parts (portions), i.e. separate (distinguish) one part from another.

I Corinthians 3 is the text I based upon my affirmation that God will destroy those who defile the temple of God.
“And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”

I may be wrong, of course, but based on my own experience of life and from relating to so many brothers and sisters, including me and you, I mean, all of us, American, Brazilian, Aruba, Dominican, Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dutch, etc., Evangelical or Protestant and all other Christians got more than 80% of our knowledge from books, from people and tradition rather than from the Holy Spirit. Most of what we have learnt we have never checked by ourselves and by the Holy Spirit. I could say more about this, but I did rather not saying, at least, for now.

My dear brother, everything you have said about yourself and your work are true. Your dedication, passion, love for the people, sincerity and most important, your character. I am behind you 100%.

But you really misunderstood my “sweeping statement” because I am for you and not against you. I am trembling as I use the words of Paul to ask you: “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”


My dear brother, I do believe in every word of those statements and I promise to ask God more and more wisdom and Love to say those things in the best way possible so that brothers like you, whom I love and admire, get not into any sadness or get wounded.

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